I'll throw out the obvious Helena Bonham Carter as Harley Quinn. Though my guess is that they want to downplay references to The Joker, given how awesome Ledger was.
I'm always prepared for a Catwoman / Poison Ivy teamup is only for the overtly lesbian / furry appeal.
The Riddler would seem to fit with the theme of the villians thus far where they are human beings who do not really have super powers so much as they are just fucked up.
SAY IT, J. Get your Catwoman crap gone. You go al'Ghul's daughter and get all the filthy tart of Catwoman, AND get to tie back to the Ra's quotes about how Batman can't succeed, the city will turn on him.
Riddler would make a good Dective Batman villian, especially if it's less deathtrappy, more manuevering Bruce into the P.D.'s line of fire.
... Andrew.. lots of people vaguely recall a reference to Selina, but no one can ever pin it down.
Still.. give me a movie where the "villian" of the piece is Batman. Or, rather, the nature of Nolan's Gotham, which pretty much IS Nolan's Batman. It's a place that attempts to stand up to a certain moral code, and falls short.
Dent, pre-Two Face is sort of it, a Look What You Can Accomplish In The Open.. Caine's Alfred is interesting in such a city, in that he seems to hint that he's done some pretty awful things himself.
A Jerimiah Arkham figure, maybe.. but.. Scarecrow kinda ran that the trappings of that angle, without any kind of altruism or even working within the social structures-play by the rules thing..
Actually.. I know who would work, if they hadn't used it in begins. The Joe Chill/anonymous gunman figure, as run the "The Man Who Created Batman" story...a criminal, but a schmuck-guy, absolutely HOUNDED by Batman in full on rage-vengence mode.
I didn't think the "should be good against cats" was a catwoman reference. I thought it was a "cats are not dogs" sort of joke.
But now that you mention it...I can see that as a pseudo reference.
I would like to see a villain which has not been in any batman movies previously. Problem is I think most of those villians are somewhat too goofy for the feel of this latest series of batman movies.
No.. that's pretty spot on. Most Batman villians, and even most DC villians.. don't fit well into the Nolan Batman mold....
...and things get worse, when you realize some of those who might have allready been gone over. Guys like Hugo Strange and Arkham wouldn't be much more than retreads of Scarecrow, despite coming from different places..
Same for folks like Talia or The Red Claw, or hell, most of the mob-tied loons, Black Mask, Penguin, maybe even Riddler.
Couldn't really do an Owlman/Crime Syndicate Thomas Wayne thing..
Deadshot? Deathstroke? KGBeast, or so? Some sort of superpowered assassin?
Ok, it HAS to incorporate a female villain. And that female villain has to be Harley. I will kill someone with a spork if Helena Bonham Carter is cast. Casting her as Harley would be like casting Kristin Stewart to play Lisa Simpson. It doesn't work. Now, have I been working for literally a year on casting Harley? Yes. The April Boggs and I, after literally hours of research and discussions, decided on Nikki Aycox. Now, before you poo-poo the idea, pull up a clip of her as Meg on SPN. She is fucking amazing and has been neglected and underutilized by Hollywood. She can pull that crazy Harley off.
Also, they cannot, CANNOT touch Catwoman. Like Highlander, there is only one. ONLY ONE. And Poison Ivy better never come back. I still have nightmares of that shitty, shitty excuse of a movie.
1) Why's it gotta be female, and follow, Harley? She really only works in two decent modes - as an adjunct to/pining for Mistah J... and in semi-post Mistah J wink-nudge lesbian/girls' night stories with Ivy. Neither of which really work tonally in the Nolan Gotham..
2) There are three Catwomen. Michelle Pfieffer is not one of them. If this is the Cheetara line, on which sides border those who don't know and those who will DIE for the line? So be it. There are three, not one, and no discussion will be brooked.
If they're going to do Harley then my guess is that they say the Joker was sent to Arkham, he gets some therapy, and then he is killed. His therapist, Harley, goes nuts and etc.
The problem with that is that 1) Heath Ledger died, so they could not show any scenes of interaction between Joker / Harley.
2) It brings The Joker back into the viewer's awareness while watching the new movie. So, the audience is thinking about how great The Joker was while Harley and whomever try to one up Ledger.
My guess is that they do not want to bring the baggage from Ledger into the next movie, so they'll probably leave it alone and not deal with Harley as a villian.
I'll agree with Ros that the Nolan Gotham is not very accomodating to most Batman villians. It tends to be beholden to reality in a way that other batman movies were not.
They could do The Riddler, as he's basically a stupid version of The Joker. They could probably do Catwoman as a thief. But we're not getting a Killer Croc.
Actually, reading over the wikipedia bio for The Riddler and learning the new take on the character? They're probably going to have The Riddler be a special investigator whose job is to find Batman. Then Riddler goes all crazy and Batman has to defeat him and Gotham is all "yey Batman" at the end.
Weaving... could make a fine Skull.. he's allready got the right bone structure to be drawn and gaunt..
Not my first choice physically, but feasible. I suspect he'd make a better Voice Of The Skull in an animated thing... But I dunno that it's FAIL territory.
On the Harley thing, though.. Harley's great, but everyone's missing on the KEY component of Harley's character - the comedy. She's intrinsicly tied to the Joker as clown and comedian. Divorce her from that, and she's.. Jokerette. Or worse, Joker's Daughter from Teen Titans. And I don't see the Nolan Batman movies doing the wry comedy well. Occasionally w/ Bruce bits, but not as Batman.
Nolan's Batman isn't Kevin Conroy's deadpan punchlines, and Harley pouting that he got the good zing. It's gravel-voiced "PRAY TO ME!" and "I can't kill you, but I don't have to SAVE you!", more Miller's Batman than Timm's.
J's Riddler thought.. is.. damned good, actually, though.. not precisely the RIDDLER, what with missing any reason for Riddles. Kinda a core component, that...
But, that said.. the idea of a special investigator out for the Bat? One who's personal mission to get him overshadows the job of being police, and endangering others? That's almost brilliant, and very MUCH the Batman as Villian/ portrait of Gotham's warped nature I was thinking of.
And it ties into the We Hunt Him bit that makes me want to see the next flick have Batman on the run from the GCPD.
Croc could work better than you might think, though. It'd be more in the vein of Penguin in Returns - Genetic Freak, as opposed to alligator mutant hulkbeast.. but it would also hearken to his original status as a man who suffered from a skin condition that caused his skin to calcify into scaly growths..
OOOOO! Do a Clayface rework.. ditch most of the Amorphic slop-man bits, but the disguise master bent on revenge for losing his face, his career? Perhaps part Clayface, part False Face/Jane Doe? Hrmn.
"But, that said.. the idea of a special investigator out for the Bat? One who's personal mission to get him overshadows the job of being police, and endangering others? That's almost brilliant, and very MUCH the Batman as Villian/ portrait of Gotham's warped nature I was thinking of."
I think we could get The Riddler to work as a special investigator where he takes discovering the identity of Batman to be a riddle, and he talks and thinks in terms of riddles. I could understand that.
Or, hey, a new superhero emerges to hunt down Batman. So, not a special investigator but rather a second Batman type character, only insted of being dark and batly he's....wolverine?
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I'll throw out the obvious Helena Bonham Carter as Harley Quinn. Though my guess is that they want to downplay references to The Joker, given how awesome Ledger was.
ReplyDeleteI'm always prepared for a Catwoman / Poison Ivy teamup is only for the overtly lesbian / furry appeal.
The Riddler would seem to fit with the theme of the villians thus far where they are human beings who do not really have super powers so much as they are just fucked up.
Come on Solomon Grundy!
ReplyDeletewasn't there a catwoman reference in the last one?
ReplyDeleteor did i dream that?
I do not recall a catwoman reference.
ReplyDeleteTA-LI-A!
ReplyDeleteSAY IT, J. Get your Catwoman crap gone. You go al'Ghul's daughter and get all the filthy tart of Catwoman, AND get to tie back to the Ra's quotes about how Batman can't succeed, the city will turn on him.
Riddler would make a good Dective Batman villian, especially if it's less deathtrappy, more manuevering Bruce into the P.D.'s line of fire.
... Andrew.. lots of people vaguely recall a reference to Selina, but no one can ever pin it down.
Still.. give me a movie where the "villian" of the piece is Batman. Or, rather, the nature of Nolan's Gotham, which pretty much IS Nolan's Batman. It's a place that attempts to stand up to a certain moral code, and falls short.
Dent, pre-Two Face is sort of it, a Look What You Can Accomplish In The Open.. Caine's Alfred is interesting in such a city, in that he seems to hint that he's done some pretty awful things himself.
I'm trying to figure out which Batman villian could serve as a kind of good guy to Batman's bad guy.
ReplyDeleteMaybe The Penguin as a sort of Kingpin-esque character?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUpi56OQ_rY
ReplyDeletethats the best i got.
Red Claw's just a bit of a knock off of Talia..
ReplyDeletehrmn..
A Jerimiah Arkham figure, maybe.. but.. Scarecrow kinda ran that the trappings of that angle, without any kind of altruism or even working within the social structures-play by the rules thing..
Actually.. I know who would work, if they hadn't used it in begins. The Joe Chill/anonymous gunman figure, as run the "The Man Who Created Batman" story...a criminal, but a schmuck-guy, absolutely HOUNDED by Batman in full on rage-vengence mode.
.. problem with this.. is .. I'd rather see a new story, than a revision of an old, no?
ReplyDelete.. ah.. video is the half-tease/half-joke Cat reference.. my mistake.
ReplyDeleteI didn't think the "should be good against cats" was a catwoman reference. I thought it was a "cats are not dogs" sort of joke.
ReplyDeleteBut now that you mention it...I can see that as a pseudo reference.
I would like to see a villain which has not been in any batman movies previously. Problem is I think most of those villians are somewhat too goofy for the feel of this latest series of batman movies.
No.. that's pretty spot on. Most Batman villians, and even most DC villians.. don't fit well into the Nolan Batman mold....
ReplyDelete...and things get worse, when you realize some of those who might have allready been gone over. Guys like Hugo Strange and Arkham wouldn't be much more than retreads of Scarecrow, despite coming from different places..
Same for folks like Talia or The Red Claw, or hell, most of the mob-tied loons, Black Mask, Penguin, maybe even Riddler.
Couldn't really do an Owlman/Crime Syndicate Thomas Wayne thing..
Deadshot? Deathstroke? KGBeast, or so? Some sort of superpowered assassin?
hi. I am back. In the last two weeks Sarah has went to 12 job interviews and got a job.
ReplyDeleteWe found and singed on a new apartment.
I finished writing this damned book chapter on 24.
and i have had a 5 day long migraine. Thus, i am back.
re; topic.
ReplyDeleteSarah things it should be Harley Quinn - but not played by Helena Bonham Carter.
i agree with ros. Talia al Ghul would be a great counter point to Bruce Wayne, dueling socialites.
I think killer croc would be an interesting villain as well.
also Wolverine
Wolverine would be a fantastic Batman villian.
ReplyDelete... Croc / Wolverine has me thinking..
ReplyDeleteThat might be the anti-Batman.. the monstrous looking human.
or.. really, go all out w/ the mirror, and use Kirk Langstrom, the Man-Bat..
Watching Two Weeks Out I noticed a guy running around the office who I thought was the guy who plays Abed.
ReplyDeleteTurns out it was the guy who plays Abed.
Ok, it HAS to incorporate a female villain. And that female villain has to be Harley. I will kill someone with a spork if Helena Bonham Carter is cast. Casting her as Harley would be like casting Kristin Stewart to play Lisa Simpson. It doesn't work. Now, have I been working for literally a year on casting Harley? Yes. The April Boggs and I, after literally hours of research and discussions, decided on Nikki Aycox. Now, before you poo-poo the idea, pull up a clip of her as Meg on SPN. She is fucking amazing and has been neglected and underutilized by Hollywood. She can pull that crazy Harley off.
ReplyDeleteAlso, they cannot, CANNOT touch Catwoman. Like Highlander, there is only one. ONLY ONE. And Poison Ivy better never come back. I still have nightmares of that shitty, shitty excuse of a movie.
1) Why's it gotta be female, and follow, Harley? She really only works in two decent modes - as an adjunct to/pining for Mistah J... and in semi-post Mistah J wink-nudge lesbian/girls' night stories with Ivy. Neither of which really work tonally in the Nolan Gotham..
ReplyDelete2) There are three Catwomen. Michelle Pfieffer is not one of them. If this is the Cheetara line, on which sides border those who don't know and those who will DIE for the line? So be it. There are three, not one, and no discussion will be brooked.
(also, grats on the lease unt job and alls..)
Batman v. Mayan Calendar?
ReplyDeleteSo no one else is feeling a batman zombie movie?
ReplyDeleteGrundy's story is too tied up in some semi-mystical stuff for it to work for me in Nolan Gotham.
ReplyDeleteIf they're going to do Harley then my guess is that they say the Joker was sent to Arkham, he gets some therapy, and then he is killed. His therapist, Harley, goes nuts and etc.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with that is that
1) Heath Ledger died, so they could not show any scenes of interaction between Joker / Harley.
2) It brings The Joker back into the viewer's awareness while watching the new movie. So, the audience is thinking about how great The Joker was while Harley and whomever try to one up Ledger.
My guess is that they do not want to bring the baggage from Ledger into the next movie, so they'll probably leave it alone and not deal with Harley as a villian.
I'll agree with Ros that the Nolan Gotham is not very accomodating to most Batman villians. It tends to be beholden to reality in a way that other batman movies were not.
They could do The Riddler, as he's basically a stupid version of The Joker. They could probably do Catwoman as a thief. But we're not getting a Killer Croc.
Actually, reading over the wikipedia bio for The Riddler and learning the new take on the character? They're probably going to have The Riddler be a special investigator whose job is to find Batman. Then Riddler goes all crazy and Batman has to defeat him and Gotham is all "yey Batman" at the end.
Also, are we getting a Robin in this movie?
ReplyDeleteI hope not. I really hate Robin.
ReplyDeletethey could have a Harley/Joker interaction. Nolan has not had a problem rewriting backgrounds
ReplyDeleteone simply makes Harley a women who saw the joker on TV and was cracked enough to follow his lead.
no matter what one does, the viewer is going to be thinking back to Batman 2: The Joker is way better than The Bat.
Also, Nolan said there would be no Robin.
I heard at the end of the next Batman, Black Vulcan shows up and asks Bruce if he's heard of the Super Friends initiative.
ReplyDelete@Adam - that would be awesome
ReplyDeleteFile this one under Casting Fail
ReplyDeleteHugo Weaving has been cast as Red Skull.
.. Really?
ReplyDeleteWeaving... could make a fine Skull.. he's allready got the right bone structure to be drawn and gaunt..
Not my first choice physically, but feasible. I suspect he'd make a better Voice Of The Skull in an animated thing... But I dunno that it's FAIL territory.
On the Harley thing, though.. Harley's great, but everyone's missing on the KEY component of Harley's character - the comedy. She's intrinsicly tied to the Joker as clown and comedian. Divorce her from that, and she's.. Jokerette. Or worse, Joker's Daughter from Teen Titans. And I don't see the Nolan Batman movies doing the wry comedy well. Occasionally w/ Bruce bits, but not as Batman.
Nolan's Batman isn't Kevin Conroy's deadpan punchlines, and Harley pouting that he got the good zing. It's gravel-voiced "PRAY TO ME!" and "I can't kill you, but I don't have to SAVE you!", more Miller's Batman than Timm's.
J's Riddler thought.. is.. damned good, actually, though.. not precisely the RIDDLER, what with missing any reason for Riddles. Kinda a core component, that...
ReplyDeleteBut, that said.. the idea of a special investigator out for the Bat? One who's personal mission to get him overshadows the job of being police, and endangering others? That's almost brilliant, and very MUCH the Batman as Villian/ portrait of Gotham's warped nature I was thinking of.
And it ties into the We Hunt Him bit that makes me want to see the next flick have Batman on the run from the GCPD.
Croc could work better than you might think, though. It'd be more in the vein of Penguin in Returns - Genetic Freak, as opposed to alligator mutant hulkbeast.. but it would also hearken to his original status as a man who suffered from a skin condition that caused his skin to calcify into scaly growths..
OOOOO! Do a Clayface rework.. ditch most of the Amorphic slop-man bits, but the disguise master bent on revenge for losing his face, his career? Perhaps part Clayface, part False Face/Jane Doe? Hrmn.
Mister Captain America...
ReplyDeleteJoe The Plumber is now an elected official.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete"But, that said.. the idea of a special investigator out for the Bat? One who's personal mission to get him overshadows the job of being police, and endangering others? That's almost brilliant, and very MUCH the Batman as Villian/ portrait of Gotham's warped nature I was thinking of."
ReplyDeleteI think we could get The Riddler to work as a special investigator where he takes discovering the identity of Batman to be a riddle, and he talks and thinks in terms of riddles. I could understand that.
Or, hey, a new superhero emerges to hunt down Batman. So, not a special investigator but rather a second Batman type character, only insted of being dark and batly he's....wolverine?
Last night's/Today's Hulu's Community..
ReplyDeletePretty sure I'm still laughing. Not totally sure, because the hysterics come and go.
... J..... you're really just looking for some Amalgam comics to get filmed, aren't you?
ReplyDeletesome Dark Claw Adventures or so?
Game worlds compared.
ReplyDeleteI have a long time believing Burnout Paradise City is bigger than the World of Warcraft place.
Of note: the WoW map doesn't include any of the expansions or instances which at least double the size.
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