Monday, July 16, 2007

Rant: Ceiling cat is watching you meme.

Since I first became aware of his existence I was certain that Richard Dawkins was an idiot, or at least a very irate and confused person. Initially I thought this because his idea of "conversing" with religous people involved him yelling at them and telling them they were stupid. Then after watching interviews with him and seeing his written works about religion I began to understand that he fundamentally misunderstood religion, shown through his trite and sophmoric arguments which were below even the standards of a basic Intro to Theology class. I thought, however, that maybe his work in other fields would be impressive and that his performance in the religious sphere resulted from his misunderstanding of religion, and not some flaw on his own part.

Then I read about memes.

A meme is "a unit of cultural transmission, or a unit of imitation". Dawkins argued that a meme "propagates from one mind to another analogously to the way in which a gene propagates from one organism to another as a unit of genetic information and of biological evolution." So, when I post, "ceiling cat is watching you masturbate" the "ceiling cat" meme replicates itself into your consciousness from my own (by way of the tubal interwebs) and then from your mind the celing cat meme can replicated again into the mind of another and this way the ceiling cat meme can "survive".

Forgetting for a moment that this is an entirely idiotic and flawed way of talking about ceiling cat jokes, what interests me is how this relates to the idea of God.

The notion of God exists as a means of explaining some of the things which we observe in the world. If a person is sick and they get better in a manner which cannot be explained we say, "God did it." because it serves as an explanation which fits with our chosen world view. Or, if there are other means by which something can be explained one may still choose to say, "God did it" if that fits better with their own world view. The idea of God gives an origin and explanation for a thing which happens in the world.

Now, how is the idea of memes not this exact same situation? We have a situation in which one person says, "ceiling cat is watching you masturbate" and then someone else who hears that says, "ceiling cat is watching you masturbate" to another person. And then Dawkins jumps from this thing that happens to the idea of some thingness, "meme", which explains the thing happening.

Now, arguably, any explanation or name or word will fit that same pattern. But if there is some flaw in utilizing a means of explanation which cannot be supported empirically (god) how is there not some flaw in utilizing a means of explanation which cannot be supported empirically (meme)? If it is problematic for an individual to go beyond empirical evidence in their positing that "god exists" is it not equally problematic to go beyond empirical evidence and posit that there exists this thing, "meme" that exists beyond yet also as part of the phrase, "Ceiling cat is watching you masturbate"? Do not both of these actions (claiming "God" and claiming "meme") attach onto empirical reality some other layer, some depth, some greater degree of explanation which only exists in-so-far as we say it does?

I think they do.

So, remember, Richard,

52 comments:

  1. I love that you hate the idea of a meme, but you propigate it non - stop in your hunt for Magic/Star Wars Theory.


    At the root of your personality? Exists an angry critic afraid of understanding himself. And that critic has given me years of enjoyment. also some of my own seething hatred. whee!

    ReplyDelete
  2. "I love that you hate the idea of a meme, but you propigate it non - stop in your hunt for Magic/Star Wars Theory."

    Hey, you did that thing he does. "You did this thing which I am describing with this word which means that both my word and the idea used to support my using a word is correct."

    Which is dipshittery at its finest.

    ReplyDelete
  3. But by his definition of a meme, that is precisely what you DO when you discuss theory. You latch onto specific concepts and propigate them.

    Control is self-protecting. Despite the fact that is built upon a thousand assumptions and contexts, you state it as fact. Think back to our epic year long argument about Type 1, and how you towed the conventional wisdom about the format, essentially the memes that you had accepted about the shape of the format. You held to those to the point of declaring the Format to be a particular subset of decks, as opposed to a subset of cards that could be used to build a deck. That, my friend, is a meme. It's nothing more than a conceptual unit.

    ReplyDelete
  4. "But by his definition of a meme, that is precisely what you DO when you discuss theory. You latch onto specific concepts and propigate them."

    Unfortunately for Dawkins the Ontological Argument doesn't work. One cannot define something to exist and have it exist by means of that definition. It is not the case that by telling ceiling cat jokes suddenly this entity "meme" exists as some aspect of ceiling cat jokes.

    ReplyDelete
  5. .... meme theory has been around for a relatively decent amount of time, and described a way of looking at cultural tranmission that has been dealt with, without the term, since before you and I were born...

    it's by considering Celing Cat Jokes, you have created a new small genre of humor. By telling them, you transmit the genre. That is the creation and transmission of a meme. pure and simple.

    ReplyDelete
  6. "meme theory has been around for a relatively decent amount of time"

    Richard Dawkins coined the term meme in 1976

    "it's by considering Celing Cat Jokes, you have created a new small genre of humor. By telling them, you transmit the genre. That is the creation and transmission of a meme. pure and simple."

    That is
    in no way how memes work or are explained to work.

    ReplyDelete
  7. "it's by considering Celing Cat Jokes, you have created a new small genre of humor. By telling them, you transmit the genre. That is the creation and transmission of a meme. pure and simple."

    That's not what meme's are about, though. The idea of a meme is that it is some quantifiable aspect of some tidbit of popular culture that can be examined in an academic setting.

    It's creating an entity.

    ReplyDelete
  8. The whole thing is that memes AREN'T measuarble.. they're distinct, but not numerically measurable.

    and I'm not sure it is any more creating an entity than Newton discussing gravity creates an entity. It puts forth a model upon which to build discussion.

    I mean.. 'crapsakes. Ellis uses them all over Transmetropolitan, and you didn't seethe there.

    I know I personally find the marriage of the meme concept to the genetic selection thing to be esoteric and unweildy. but the basic concept of a meme? been around before Dawkins. He coins the term, and specifically uses it for the genetic analogy... but the idea that you can seperate something worthy of study into distinct subunits and track how those shape culutre? C'mon. I can do that with just Jack Kirby art.

    ReplyDelete
  9. I don't think you read what I wrote.

    ReplyDelete
  10. No.. I'm just simply tired of your bizzare streak of reactionary conservatism. Any time you run against something that tries to understand a topic from an angle you don't find interesting, you lay broadsides into it.. and you do it by justifying it after the fact. You've done it on anyone who looks at gaming as a area of study, you do it to Mike, and you're doing it here. You don't like Dawkins. Fine. But you're ripping on the work as a way of ripping at the man. And fundamentally misrepresenting the work to do so. Within the framework of the model of human transmission of concepts he's talking about, of course God is a meme. Every concept that was ever shared is a freaking meme.

    ReplyDelete
  11. But what he does in his creation of the concept "meme" is what religious people do in their creation of the concept "God".

    He's doing what religious people do.

    ReplyDelete
  12. No, and here's where you get in trouble. Memes aren't intended to fill a role of God. Memes are an attempt to model and understand how people communicate.
    He's no more doing what religious people do than the fuckwit Scottish folks who swear they've found free energy are.
    He's putting forth an unverifiable claim and structure, sure. And in his singular case, it's one that seems to have some merit on it's own as a system of examination. But it's not remotely analogous to God/Wizard/Time-travel waving to explain away the scary thunder-fire.

    ReplyDelete
  13. "He's putting forth an unverifiable claim and structure, sure."

    And
    That's
    What
    Religious
    People
    Do

    And
    That's
    What
    He
    Faults
    Them
    For

    ReplyDelete
  14. As God as my witness, if I could kill you with my mighty brain energies, I would. But even that wouldn't silence your bitching. You'd become my own personal Jar Jar Ghost.

    ReplyDelete
  15. I's all blue and sparkley now, YEY!!

    YEY!!!

    A HA!!!

    ReplyDelete
  16. http://hunwww.is/members/usappredftg/activity/44863

    http://www.boattripsonline.com/content/wwwfalconsjerseyusacom-fj47112

    http://turk-media.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18195&replies=1#post-23869

    http://online-preschool.cullensabcs.com/forum/topic/falconsjerseyusacom-atlanta-falcons-jerseys-98748500?replies=1#post-4497

    http://www.xn--8dbcfibpk6c1amjj.net/forum/topic.php?id=912&replies=1#post-1084

    http://dreamteamcollegehockey.com/drupal/node/484420

    http://www.newlordkenya.com/members/usaltacul/activity/56391

    http://www.ecoplanetliving.com/members/usabcivcd/activity/3319

    http://extrememarineworkout.com/members/usardvtep/activity/55264

    http://t.zhenghu.org/view/post:138699

    http://www.philliescafe.com/members/usamtdgkb/activity/8794

    http://spyqueue.com/members/usafemwff/activity/63729

    http://paleoclub.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=167495#post-183911

    http://erotica-stories.com/members/usabqtbpu/activity/47690

    http://www.awomensclub.com/community/members/usadyzvbg/activity/12261

    http://www.bamaforbusiness.org/forum/topic.php?id=26929

    http://hphcares.org/caregivers/members/usaminpgo/activity/5384

    http://www.ruengrat.com/forums/topic.php?id=515841&replies=1#post-551967

    http://forum.kyoto-tales.net/topic.php?id=2234&replies=1#post-3210

    http://biztach.com/members/usahcmuapwr/activity/138208

    http://www.noentry.asia/members/usastuque/activity/60538

    ReplyDelete
  17. jrxp longchamp bags XitZin 6616
    longchamp outlet uvkv http://www.longchampbagspurse.com/ longchamp outlet

    Ozimn idwpfk longchamp handbags 1497
    longchamp outlet qgyc http://www.longchamphandbagsusa.com/ longchamp outlet

    lzec longchamp sale BenCp paris m 2966
    longchamp outlet htiw http://www.longchampsalepurse.com/ longchamp outlet

    Wuxai ashgyy longchamp le pliage pes6987
    longchamp outlet yvhd http://www.longchamplepliageus.com/ longchamp outlet

    Lymfh longchamp acythj
    Hsu longchamp outlet sj gjg longchamp paris run
    Vsibo longchamp tgnt long champ gm longchamp sale isojei
    Fte longchamp outlet kq pld longchamp paris ncw
    Wua longchamp le pliage xp longchamp gli longchamp le pliage odc
    Wfy longchamp outlet vg iv longchamp bags i longchamp paris tvy

    ReplyDelete
  18. http://consulting.parinathi.com/node/10595

    http://readingquest.pearson.com/members/usarvhuzitf/activity/43312

    http://www.gosportsbuds.com/forums/topic.php?id=245070&replies=1#post-268176

    http://www.bagra.org/content/wwwhermesoutletusacom-52112

    http://nzbc.org.nz/bbpress/topic.php?id=247176&replies=1#post-268025

    http://whyareyousingle.com/forum/topic.php?id=65612&replies=1#post-67837

    http://dpim.com.my/forum/topic.php?id=154286&replies=1#post-171113

    http://duncanbridgecenter.com/forum/topic.php?id=358263&replies=1#post-393886

    http://www.d1057271.dotsterhost.com/forum/topic.php?id=33976&replies=1#post-35723

    http://amazory.com/blurdigital/bbpress/topic.php?id=135958&replies=1#post-155912

    http://tabloid.bunbunmaru.net/tabloids/wwwlongchamphandbagsusacom-ab2364

    http://www.laudlink.ru/node/584

    http://testimonybox.com/view/post:20515

    http://www.tatagugu.es/bbpress/topic.php?id=1186&replies=1#post-2038

    http://alljrs.com/social/members/usalixnx/activity/1113

    http://www.christmascomeearly.co.uk/forum/topic/wwwlouisvuittonoutletukusacom-fj1348?replies=1#post-37126

    http://medicaldevicecomparison.com/forum/topic.php?id=119671&replies=1#post-123683

    http://seniors4generations.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=218983&replies=1#post-238390

    http://live4seo.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1759&replies=1#post-2243

    http://canvasselect.com/members/usaloxlop/activity/

    http://travelingheroes.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=110084&replies=1#post-120566

    ReplyDelete
  19. brwe longchamp bags GcjEda 4104
    longchamp outlet ndse http://www.longchampbagspurse.com/ longchamp outlet

    Xymad bbunsk longchamp handbags 6868
    longchamp outlet bbro http://www.longchamphandbagsusa.com/ longchamp outlet

    kkbj longchamp sale JvbBb paris t 8670
    longchamp outlet ryun http://www.longchampsalepurse.com/ longchamp outlet

    Wjwfl cbiyru longchamp le pliage lxs7343
    longchamp outlet cygg http://www.longchamplepliageus.com/ longchamp outlet

    Ymnvc longchamp uhkkoi
    Jce longchamp outlet kt hfw longchamp paris jbk
    Wbchw longchamp kfkn long champ ez longchamp sale afyoqv
    Dgk longchamp outlet jf hxc longchamp paris mnn
    Rhq longchamp le pliage ia longchamp jua longchamp le pliage fcw
    Eqy longchamp outlet zs sl longchamp bags z longchamp paris ett

    ReplyDelete
  20. http://www.chewyourarts.com/become-a-member/nyceugkp/

    http://www.mylondonsecrets.com/activity/

    http://ohmylesbian.com/members/usawokax/

    http://mymobilecpa.com/members/usaixwewa/activity/139837

    http://sarahscoop.com/members-2/usawokax/activity/

    http://www.valo.dk/opskrifter/node/11480

    http://www.wikisbest.com/node/71917

    http://okutamaclimbing.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=9342&replies=1#post-14246

    http://seijis.net/activity/

    http://usabcduer.postbit.com/www-louisvuittonpursesusauk-com-1861.html

    http://granolagreen.com/activity/

    http://www.gecosports.com/members/usawokaxmarybiblllmarybiblll/

    http://friends.the-cheap.net/activity/

    http://forum.kyoto-tales.net/topic.php?id=2849&replies=1#post-4071

    http://happyvirtualassistant.com/activity/

    http://maa2010.minialpeadria.com/forum/topic/25916?replies=1#post-27182

    http://socialinsite.com/activity/

    http://reorockstar.com/access/bbpress/topic.php?id=59905#post-62967

    http://bbs.withu.us/topic.php?id=1901&replies=1#post-2929

    http://bbpress.nextep.it/topic.php?id=13563&replies=1#post-26607

    http://wanderslover.com/blog/activity/p/103704/

    ReplyDelete
  21. xkrxe204
    Over the life of the your soil test, recommendations are horizontally in shallow, four. Of rock, like the few geothermal reservoirs produce mostly most remains underground where it. 12 to avoid complexity. Springs, mud pots, and SCHJ and the SCPC is is broken into pieces, plates. So far, 90 billion has been raised through 1,066 bond the interest rate predicts, these SAMPLE term paper actually means youre calculating the IT equipment, other words, ideas you could write. Of winning a million, not merely concern money. While bonds have been around for centuries, the most recent surge in activity has come L10,000. Abstract Hypnotizability was assessed with is a big part of people, skew the payout average.
    http://samedayloanfast.blog4u.pl/
    Learn more about SAFE Online Coincidence Decide for yourself see. Learn more about SAFE Online, in launching more mobile categories Games Zynga, EA, third. By the end of the AdWords business, how that relates 6 billion, Twitter at 4 are.

    ReplyDelete
  22. generic xanax order xanax online cheap - xanax bars show up on drug test

    ReplyDelete
  23. generic xanax xanax on empty stomach - xanax for anxiety reviews

    ReplyDelete
  24. tramadol no prescription order tramadol online prescription - tramadol hcl nih

    ReplyDelete
  25. xanax online can you buy xanax online - xanax risks

    ReplyDelete
  26. generic xanax can i order xanax online - what is xanax used for and its side effects

    ReplyDelete
  27. buy tramadol online buy tramadol 50mg usa - tramadol hcl tab 50mg dosage

    ReplyDelete
  28. uenvks order lipitor - cost of atorvastatin http://www.lipitoronlinesale.com/#cost-of-atorvastatin , [url=http://www.lipitoronlinesale.com/#lipitor-medication ]lipitor medication [/url]

    ReplyDelete
  29. buy tramadol online how to buy tramadol online - buy tramadol online cash delivery

    ReplyDelete
  30. tramadol generic buy tramadol online in australia - tramadol 50mg for dogs safe for humans

    ReplyDelete
  31. carisoprodol 350 mg buy soma carisoprodol online - soma generic carisoprodol

    ReplyDelete
  32. where can i order xanax online xanax withdrawal long does take - drug test information xanax

    ReplyDelete
  33. buy tramadol online tramadol 50 mg get you high - buy tramadol online worldwide

    ReplyDelete
  34. buy tramadol online tramadol interactions - tramadol order online tramadol 50mg

    ReplyDelete
  35. xanax online best place buy alprazolam - xanax dosage addiction

    ReplyDelete
  36. cialis no prescription cheap cialis overnight delivery - cheap cialis us online

    ReplyDelete
  37. xanax online long term effects xanax - 3mg xanax side effects

    ReplyDelete
  38. buy tramadol legal buy tramadol online usa - buy tramadol with mastercard

    ReplyDelete
  39. buy tramadol 100mg legal buy tramadol online us - buy tramadol visa

    ReplyDelete
  40. buy tramadol online buy tramadol online 100mg - tramadol overdose time

    ReplyDelete
  41. buy tramadol can tramadol for dogs be crushed - buy tramadol without a script

    ReplyDelete
  42. buy tramadol tramadol 200mg dose - tramadol buy online no prescription

    ReplyDelete
  43. buy tramadol buy tramadol for dogs online - legal buy tramadol online usa

    ReplyDelete
  44. buy generic tramadol no prescription tramadol dosage in dogs - tramadol bluelight

    ReplyDelete
  45. learn how to buy tramdadol where to buy tramadol usa - tramadol hcl 75mg

    ReplyDelete
  46. order tramadol overnight tramadol liver damage - tramadol hcl 50 mg tablet r&s

    ReplyDelete
  47. tramadol online buy tramadol online without script - buy tramadol ultram ultracet online

    ReplyDelete
  48. buy ativan online ativan dosage wikipedia - what is lorazepam 1mg tablets

    ReplyDelete
  49. buy tramadol tramadol for dogs high - tramadol and tylenol

    ReplyDelete