Monday, November 1, 2010

The Bro Code: Objectification of Women?

So, per the rules of The Bro Code, if Bro-A indicates interest in Female-X, then Female-X is "out of bounds" for all Bros of Bro-A. Bro-B may not seek out Female-X lest he violate the Bro Code.

The problem, as I see it, is that having given women the vote, they ceased to be objects. And as far as I can discern, the only manner by which to get this aspect of The Bro Code up and running is to treat women not as people, but rather as objects. So I think, at the very least, that any individual invoking this aspect of The Bro Code must also admit to objectifying women, treating women as objects to be desired and claimed rather than self-directing, sentient, rational entities.

But I might be wrong, so let's see if my argument holds.

If Player-A and Player-B walk into a donut shop they might both inspect the donuts available. If Player-A notes an especially satisfying looking donut, a delightful white cake donut with white icing and sprinkles, Player-A may call "dibs" on that donut. Having called dibs, Player-A does not have to worry about Player-B purchasing the donut, unless Player-B is an asshole.

With regard to the donut we can understand the power-relation between the Players and the donut. The donut has no volition, no hopes, no dreams; it is an inert physical object to be consumed. Either Player may call dibs on the donut and not violate the "rights" or, in less problematic terms, the desires of the donut unto itself. If Player-A calls dibs the donut will not yearn, in its heart of hearts, to be consumed by Player-B. In this situation, the rule of dibs functions without problem.

Now, if we consider women to be, basically, donuts with vaginas instead of cakey goodness and tits instead of frosting, then the dibs system has no difficulties. But if we maintain that women are, in fact, not donuts...then the dibs system seems to encounter a problem: How may dibs be called for an entity which has desires of its own?

Let's play make-believe for a moment and construct a completely fictitious scenario.

Let's say that Player A and Player B are both academic students in the same department. A new woman, Female-X, enters the department as a student. Player A articulates an interest in Female-X, asking Player B to not attempt to date Female-X.

Question 1: At this moment, The Bro Code has been invoked. Does this act fundamentally undermine the personhood of Female-X and treat her as a donut, or can this act cohere with the notion of Female-X as a rational, self-directing entity?

So, time goes on. Player A makes its moves and Player B spends time with Female X, but never puts forth effort into dating. It turns out, after some time has passed, that Female X "likes" Player B, but does not "like" Player A. Female X indicates a desire to date Player B.

Question 2: In this event, would Player B dating Female X violate The Bro Code?

The situation is further complicated by Player A's professed stance of not objectifying females. Yet, I wonder, how can a male not objectify females and at the same time treat females as donuts, insofar as dibs can be called?

This is my difficulty. Does the Bro Code fundamentally objectify women? Can an individual who professes to not objectify women invoke The Bro Code? Most importantly; with The Bro Code having been invoked, can the male who did not invoke The Bro Code date the female for whom dibs have been called without violating The Bro Code if the female in question explicitly states her own dating interests?

The larger issue, I think, is what to make of the desires of women with regard to the standards of The Bro Code. Another rule of The Bro Code is that a Bro may not date the sister of another Bro. But, if said sister desired to date the Bro of her Brother, would not this artificial rule structure limit and retard the desires of the female, the sister? Does not the sister have a right to actualize her desire to fuck her brother's bro? Or, is The Bro Code a fundamental rule of existence, articulating that women are to be objects without desires or volition of their own?

Prior to women getting the vote, the Bro Code functioned without problem for thousands of years. But, having been given the vote, how does one reconcile the rules of The Bro Code with the fact that women are, at least to some people, not donuts? What do you think?

For my part, I cannot reconcile the act of "I call dibs on that" with "I do not objectify women". I can understand calling dibs on a donut, but to call dibs on a female seems to place the female in the position of the donut, as an object of desire. Even if a guy says to another guy, "Hey, could you not make any moves on that girl and give me a chance to make my moves first?" this act treats the female as an object of desire, a donut, an entity to be consumed; at the very least this statement can be summarized to say, "I want that."

Perhaps another way of stressing my point is to elucidate the degree to which this system is characterized as a competition, with tits and pussy as the prize. If there is a competition between Player A and Player B for the female, then what does this say of the female? Well, it makes her, almost by definition, a prize. But since women can vote, is it also sensible to maintain that they are prizes? How do we make sense of this obvious tension?

Discuss!

13 comments:

Roscoe said...

... Question. Your example is one of selection determiniation. Which.. by that logic, would make.. all non-voting entities also objects, no?

The example correctly notes Players A and B as having power of determination, and Target Donut/Lady/whathaveyou as not..

But, similarly, by that logic, Felons, Minors, mentally invalid, they would equate to objects in national politics, because they have no power of determination, either.

Which doesn't seem to be where you plan to take this argument. What I'm getting at is.. The Code isn't involate, it's a compact made between entities.

You've manufactured a slightly tedious and wildly circular reasoning for breaking said code, when all you really need is, Sorry, Bro, Game On.

Or, Alternately, Sorry, Brah, She's just not that into ya. I'll text you later from her place, man.

Roscoe said...

... There's also inherient objectification in the language you present, making it impossible for someone else to argue the case the other way..

Though, I honestly believe you're conflating actual objectification of women that might go on concurrently WITH selection determination criteria, I don't think that there NEED be such together.

But damned if I know how to prise those elements out of your "Tits and pussy as the prize" setup.

It'd be akin to playing Jenga w/ a toy in the center of the tower. I'd have to pull away bricks just to get around to removing the problematic ones, and.. I dunno where to start w/out it all falling down on me.

Unknown said...

Dude, this is a brotastrophe.

Roscoe said...

Clearly, J needs the Triforce of Brower to solve this..

wait.. no..

that's the one that turns you into an evil tyrant who rules with Golden Power..

hrmn.

Caleb said...

First of all, I love the synecdoche of the vote and personhood, and understandably bizarre histori/ethno-centrism.

Second, Roscoe is spot on here:

You've manufactured a slightly tedious and wildly circular reasoning for breaking said code, when all you really need is, Sorry, Bro, Game On.

Or, Alternately, Sorry, Brah, She's just not that into ya. I'll text you later from her place, man.


Third, I think I've always struggled with the notion of people as non-objects. It seems that I have all of the properties of the desk in front of me with the addition of some ability of motion and a certain cognizance/awareness/intention. How can there be a desire for a thing if the thing is not a thing? Aren't we rather a certain class of object rather than non-objects?

I think the terror in the objectification of individuals is that they are esteemed with regard only to their desk-attributes, neglecting, most probably, the best parts of what a person is.

I'd modify your scenario slightly:
Player-A, recognizing Player-A's desire for Player-X, asks that Player-B defer whatever of Player-B's own desire that may exist for Player-X so that Player-A might, without competing with another, attempt to attract the desire of Player-X.

By doing this, Player-A is acknowledging Player-B's agency in the world, and Player-B is acknowledging Player-A's agency and desire for Player-X, while they both understand that opportunities for such occurrences are not infinite and, hopefully, realize Player-X possesses agency and desire of Player-X's own.

_J_ said...

" Which.. by that logic, would make.. all non-voting entities also objects, no?"

That's the joke.

" There's also inherient objectification in the language you present, making it impossible for someone else to argue the case the other way"

That is why I phrased things in that way.

@Kyle: They ought to have called it 'Sucky Island of Suck'

"How can there be a desire for a thing if the thing is not a thing? Aren't we rather a certain class of object rather than non-objects?"

Right. Persons are objects and are treated as objects; objectification is simply something human beings do. However, we recognize that some objects have volition while others do not. We recognize that some have desires while others do not. So, with a donut, we do not worry about retarding its desires. But with a woman, we sometimes fret over whether or not our actions make the woman retarded.

The tricky part is this:
"attempt to attract the desire of Player-X."

That language, and any language used to describe the situation, seems to make Player-X the object of some sort of manipulation. Player-A wants to attract Player-X. The situation is not
1) Let Player-X freely chose me independent of influence.

but

2) Let Player-X be directed / manipulated into Player-A's clutches.

"I want to get that thing to like me" seems to be objectifying language. At time-point-1, Player-X does not like Player-A. So, Player-A wants to manipulate Player-X into liking it.

That seems like manipulation, or at the very least exerting an influence. And I'm pretty sure "I want to influence that into liking me" is an objectifying mentality. Which goes into the main question:

"How may dibs be called for an entity which has desires of its own?"

"I call dibs on that" is a phrase to be used for both donuts and women. If we maintain that donuts are not women, then how can the same phrase be used? Would there not need to be a modification for the sake of acknowledging the volition of the woman?

With the donut it is plainly objectifying. With women, if it is not objectifying, then what changed? And if we change it from "I want that" to "I want an opportunity to get X to like me" then how have we not invoked manipulation?

Roscoe said...

What's changed is whether or not the object has the ability to control its own interactions.

Donuts, as far as we know, do not. Women, ostensibly, do. The problem lies not in manipulation, because there's nothing problematic about manipulation, the problem lies in deception/denial.

Your case fundamentally depends on the woman being a non-entity, like the donut, something that cannot react to, for or against, the input of the manipulator or the lack thereof of the second actor.

It's a false scenario that you're setting up, unless you're talking about making a play for Terri Schiavo.

_J_ said...

"The problem lies not in manipulation, because there's nothing problematic about manipulation, the problem lies in deception/denial."

Manipulate: to manage or influence skillfully, esp. in an unfair manner: to manipulate people's feelings.


I think you meant "influence" rather than "manipulate".

Roscoe said...

Not at all. Thumbs allow us the manipulation of tools, not the influence of the same.

This is where I call attention back to the language you crafted your argument with. It's implicitly supporting objectification even as it seeks to find a reason to counter it.

The language I used was not only fine, but specific, but because it carries an implication in certain uses, it colored your read of my response.

Manipulation, in the context you're reading, is in the unfair manner sense... Which relies entirely upon deception/denial - deceiving the target/woman or denying relevant information to the same.

Caleb said...

" Let Player-X be directed / manipulated into Player-A's clutches."

As though Player-X is somehow more susceptible to the imminantly clever tricks humans employ in such things than either Player-A or Player-B? How patronizing. Also, how does any person, ever, make any decision absent the influence/manipulation of others (Does the witholding of influence count as manipulation?) ?

Also, is it wrong for me to tell the lie that this food has no medicine in it?

Also, Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit.

Caleb said...

Also, J is totally right.

Player-A is saying, "Player-B, you could totally have Player-X if you tried, so for my sake don't try because Player-X would be totally incapable of fending off your advances, and I simply cannot compete with you for Player-X's affections. So, do a bro a solid, and let me have this one."

What a shit.

Roscoe said...

Way to stroke player B's ego there, Caleb.

Player A is doing numerous things here.. he's announcing his interest to potential problem B, he's subtly gaging B's interest in the same, and he's asking B, if uninterested, to play some defense and clear the lanes for a uninhibited approach on his behalf.

The manipulations here do not involve the quarry at all, they're manipulations upon The Bros at Hand.

By doing all this in a question, and invoking Bro-dom? A is putting B and C,E,D and sundry on their back heels, forced to place their Bro status over their own possible claims.

Did I just argue Bro Code objectifies Bros?

Caleb said...

Hm, yes. Point for astute Roscoe.