Everyone Is a Sith: Wisconsin Cluster[chat]

Saturday, March 5, 2011

Wisconsin Cluster[chat]

My understanding of Democracy is that if 51% of the people vote for X, then they get X.

If you don't like that, then go to Russia.

49 comments:

Roscoe said...: Does your understanding of Democracy work like your understanding of Magic? If so, isn't this the equivalent of forcing the draw by popping dragons early?; February 27, 2011 at 8:52 AM
_J_ said...: The Republicans did not break any rules.

Perhaps your complaint is with the structure of the format, given that you fault them for breaking a non-rule.; February 27, 2011 at 4:20 PM
Mike Lewis said...: you assume that democracy ends on election day. democracy is a continues process.

Corporate lobbyist spend millions of dollars a year to buy influence with law makers. In many cases, the only option left left to people is public protest.

In the case of Wisconsin, republicans cut corporate taxes and created a huge budget short fall. Surprise, less money means less money.

Solution? Take away the retirement funds of teaches and secretaries. Because who needs teachers and secretaries.; February 27, 2011 at 6:04 PM
Mike Lewis said...: also, pubic employees in Wisconsin are not eligible for social security because they were paying into a state pension.

Also, they have not got a raise in 7 years. So they actually taken a pay cut each year because their salaries are not tied to the rate of inflation.

a week ago they said they would take additional pay cuts as long as they did not lose their right to collective barging - Walker rejected that

States that have killed public unions in the last 10 years (indiana, Mississippi) have not solved budget problems. in fact it has not not made a difference. it turns out cutting teachers salaries does not make up for the fact that states don't tax giant corporations.; February 27, 2011 at 6:17 PM
Roscoe said...: No, they didn't. My point is less that and more that they tried to run the game without having the votes.

In other words, they don't actually have 51%. They can pop Worldgorger out, but they don't have their kill switch.

Basically, I'm saying you can't fault the Wis. Senate Dems for leaving the state and locking things up. Because they're forcing the draw, according the the rule structure they inhabit.; February 27, 2011 at 6:27 PM
_J_ said...: Something I read on Huffington Post said that the reason Republicans want to get rid of Unions is that Unions elect Democrats.

That kind of makes sense.

"Basically, I'm saying you can't fault the Wis. Senate Dems for leaving the state and locking things up. Because they're forcing the draw, according the the rule structure they inhabit."

I don't fault them for leaving. My issue is the people yelling "shame" in the video clip.; February 28, 2011 at 2:00 AM
Caleb said...: I don't know about that -- measure simply passing or even being democratically agreed upon does not make it just, the doing of injustice being adequate for shame.
Utah

3/5; February 28, 2011 at 5:53 PM
Mike Lewis said...: Yes, this is a move to publish demarcates for being demarcates. But saying that it is simply that is reductionist. that is the cable news/chris matthews explanation.

its larger and more complicated than just punishing demarcatic voters. its about undermining institutions to the point they can be sold off the corporations. Walker did this when he was the major of Milwaukee. He tried to fire the unionized security staff at public builds and hire a private company (who were big campaign donors) in a no-bid contract. The city council shot him down. When the city council was not in session he fired the security staff. 2 months later a federal judge said he had stepped outside the bounds of his power, they fired the private security company and were forced to pay out the contract for the security firm and pay back salary of the securty staff (the city lost $10 million dollars).

This is what republicans have been trying (and succeeding) at for 30 years; February 28, 2011 at 7:52 PM
Roscoe said...: I think we're all missing the point J's at here.

It's the return of Levitican-Man, Follower of Rule Structure, Demanding All Be Bound By Its Law, Regardless of Will.

He's not offended by senators leaving their job, because the rules don't stop them. He IS offended by constituents yelling at people elected, doing their job. Even though, it's arguable that the constituents themselves, in yelling, are doing THEIR job.; March 1, 2011 at 2:07 PM
_J_ said...: "He IS offended by constituents yelling at people elected, doing their job."

Right. The Republicans violated no rules.

So, if we say they did something wrong, then the wrongness results from something other than the rulesets to which they are beholden.

As far as I know, "Don't be a dick" is not a legally binding rule.; March 1, 2011 at 11:05 PM
Roscoe said...: but, is it not possible that their job INVOLVES shameful acts?

Ought not people therefore rightly call out those acts?

Basically, where do you ground your assumption that being yelled at by unhappy constituents isn't also part of the job?; March 2, 2011 at 5:40 PM
_J_ said...: State Dept. Asks U.S. Citizens In Libya What The Hell They Were Doing In Libya; March 3, 2011 at 2:41 AM
_J_ said...: "Basically, where do you ground your assumption that being yelled at by unhappy constituents isn't also part of the job?"

On the documents detailing their job requirements.; March 3, 2011 at 2:53 AM
Roscoe said...: You have those handy? Because... I always thought that a healthy, vocal constituency was considered a good thing in politics.

Write, call, tell you state representatives, and all that?; March 3, 2011 at 1:07 PM
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Everyone Is a Sith

Saturday, March 5, 2011

Wisconsin Cluster[chat]

49 comments:

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