Friday, September 14, 2007

Motion Sensitive Controls - I shall not soon tire of berating their misuse

From Eurogamer's review of Heavenly Sword:

By default, the game encourages you to use the SixAxis tilt controls [to steer missiles], but although it feels rather fantastic when you wobble your pad to your target, it's horribly imprecise. After a few hours of struggling with it, we couldn't quite believe how much easier it was to control the direction with the analogue stick in comparison

WILL EVERYONE PLEASE STOP RELEGATING MOTION SENSITIVE CONTROLS TO "GIMMICK" STATUS?! Wii Sports has the controls pretty well figured out. They make you swing your controller to hit a tennis ball because that's how playing tennis works, and it all makes sense. Then in practically every other application they look at a situation where pressing A would perform an action and figure "hitting A is so last gen, this is next gen! Waggle a stick for massive damage! When it works it'll be just like hitting A, and when it doesn't work, it'll be exactly like not hitting A, and nobody will be able to predict which will happen! Wheeeeeeeeeeee!" Tilting a PS3 controller to aim a missile? Are you fucking kidding me? I'm going to make a game where you play chess by fucking blowing into the DS microphone. Nintendo Power and Play magazine will call it brilliant, and everyone else will wonder why god would allow me to blight the earth with my hopelessly imprecise gameplay.

I realize that I probably harp on this subject a little too often, but I don't bring it up any more frequently than developers whiz this nice little technology down their spindly legs.

23 comments:

_J_ said...

Here's the part I like:
"we couldn't quite believe how much easier it was to control the direction with the analogue stick"

Are you fucking serious? You can't be fucking serious! Pac Man was released in 1979. It is now 2007. So that means for at least at least 28 years analogue sticks have been used in games.

And these people just now realized that analogue sticks are effective means of control? They were just now struck by a sense of realization wherein they thought, "Hey...I'm moving the stick...and my character on the screen moves...and it's simple, intuitive control..."

Really?

_J_ said...

Also, I like reading rants people post on this topic. It's sort of like Transformers in that we're right and everyone else is very confused.

At Kyle's we played Mario Party. And I was struck by how everythign in the game could have been accomplished by either Pressing A or using a directional pad. Yet now instead of just relaxing and pressing A I have to move my arm / wrist...because that makes it more enjoyable, apparently...to some people.

Kylebrown said...

Don't worry Adam, I too agree completely, there are cases where the motion sensitivity completely rocks. And actually, in Mario Party, I liked them.

My problem actually relates to the IR shit. I find the 'mote' part of the "Wiimote" a pain in the ass. Just my opinion.

And for games like Marvel Ultimate Alliance, the controls just make me cry. The game is far too fast paced to be playing with motion controls. And camera control using motion sensitivy is the worst idea in all of video game history!

But there was a truck racing game that came out very early for the Wii, and I was impressed with how they used the motion controls, turning the Wiimote into a veritable steering wheel. This is a proper use of the Wiimote, why can't developers figure out that good things come in modest quantities?

_J_ said...

I liked that truck racing game as well. If we're talking about the same one there was a demo of it at an EB in Ft. Wayne. It made sense.

I didn't like the Mario Party controls because they were gimick rather than utility. I don't need to make a rowing motion with the Wiimote to row. I could just press A to row.

Games like the tank game where you aim using the Wiimote? That makes sense to me. Pointing the Wiimote at what you want to shoot is far easier than trying to aim via an analog stick or button.

Zelda, from what I have seen, fails the utility test as well. I don't need/want to make a sword slashing motion. Just let me press A. And even if there were some utility to the sword swinging, like if the harder you swung the harder the in-game sword swung, then we can replicate that with the A button. The harder you push, etc.

I like utility. Where the DS and Wii succeed is where they use their interface in a manner that has utility. Where they fail is where they replace "press A" with a needless Wiimotion.

Roscoe said...

Man.. I'm so very torn.. beucase.. I agree.. until I read Jay talking about Mario Party. Becuase.. it and Wario Ware? ESPECIALLY on their first iterations on the Wii?

OF COURSE they're going to be all about using the remote. It's what they were DESIGNED TO DO and WHAT THEY WERE BORN FOR. They are the Peanut Butter and Jelly of the motion sensitive world.

As for the IR sensitivity.. that's something that can be tweaked and finessed until it works. It's a bit of a bear to set up right now, and it's never fun when your 'mote tweaks out like a crackfiend.. but.. it's not a game design flaw as much as a set up flaw.

Christ on a crutch, Jay. Have you played Twilight Princess? I've played both the Cube and the Wii version. Whippin' out the sword? swinging/waggling to circle cut, shield thrusting? ALL better on the Wii.

There's gimmick and there's well done. I dunno how gimmicky Mario Party is, but I'm not certain that's a concrete flaw in a game whose raison d'etre is gimmicky. I know how gimmicky Zelda is. Which is near-nil. The difference between gimmick and new design potential is only how well it works, and frankly, Zelda Works. Go play through the Boar Joust or the Gannon fight. Do it. Come back and tell me you still feel that way.

_J_ said...

I'm not going to grant the premise that somehow moving a piece of plastic is somehow more enjoyable than pressing a button on a piece of plastic. At least not necessarily.

Controls have an effect on gameplay. Guitar Hero is enjoyable, in part, because you have a little plastic guitar with fret buttons and a strum bar. It replicates playing a guitar, at least in some ways. And these ways are enjoyable.

With zelda? They took "press A" and replaced it with a motion. It's not as if you are actually holding a sword and anything you could do with a sword can be replicated via moving the wiimote. If I could thrust forward with the mote, twist it, then quickly thrust it behind me, toss it over my head, catch it, and then spin around to attack multiple enemies and the in-game sword would recreate those motions? Hells yes. Hells yes. But for now, since I can't do that? Let me press A.

And with regard to Wario Ware? I don't care how many times someone says, "No! You have to actually drop the remote!" I still don't care. But part of that is my hatred of Wario Ware / mini-games.

If something was born for a stupid purpose it does not somehow become less stupid in fulfilling that stupid purpose.

If it has utility? Then awesome.

Kylebrown said...

Mario Party would have been a lot better if they used the motion sensitivity stuff purely for the mini games.

Using motion sensitivity in the board game perspective can become very frustrating.

Moving the wiimote up to hit your dice block is over kill....

_J_ said...

Also to randomly select an opponent in Mario Party one uses the Wiimote to throw a dart at a spinning board.

And as I think about it, why wasn't there a dart game in either Wii Sports or Wii Play?

Roscoe said...

I was not aware of the wiimotion to move spaces. That does seem excessive.. though.. I still stand by my claim of right for the initial foray of a gimmick-based game onto the system...

The thing about Zelda? is that what you're describing is in the game. Is it as detailed as you want? No. But you thrust your 'chuk forward to sheild bash someone back. Different gestures enable different attacks. I suspect you've not spent enough time with Zelda to really settle into it.. I mean it's a half hour plus before you get your sword... but honestly.. it's in a whole other category from what you're describing as gimmicky. Press A is still there for every tool, so you can use your sword and your tools.. It really seems like you're using the worst possible evidence for your case with Twilight Princess. The Cube version is simply less of a game with the same elements mapped to a Wavebird.

_J_ said...

"Different gestures enable different attacks."

Which is my point. In games like Bowling and Tennis your moves are actually replicated, to a degree, in-game. So when you add that twist at the end of your swing on bowling your ball will "wheel" in a manner befitting the twist. When you twist the remote in Tennis or angle it that affects your swing and the way the ball moves.

In driving? Turning the Wiimote actually turns the steering wheel of the car in a manner matching how you turn the Wiimote.

Pool? The force with which you move the wiimote forward has an effect on the force with which you hit the ball.

Zelda has just replaced "Hit B" with "move nunchuck forward". "Hit A" was replaced with "swing wiimote". It's not utilizing the capabilities of the system so much as it has taken one task "hit a" and replaced it with "move wiimote" or "lower wiimote".

Like in Marvel Ultimate Alliance. The wiimote doesn't add anything. It just replaces button combinations with wiimote movements. It's not necessary or helpful or enjoyable. It's not innovative. It's just playing to that "I'm not pressing buttons, so I must be having fun." in the same way that Yu Gi Oh says "Instead of doing 1 damage to a creature with 20 life i'm doing 100 damage to a creature with 2,000 life, so it must be more fun."

_J_ said...

"The Cube version is simply less of a game with the same elements mapped to a Wavebird."

So by that logic every non-Wii game, ever, is less of a game than the "Look, Ma! I'm moving a remote!" Wii version.

MA17 said...

I finished Twilight Princess and I think I'm still right in saying that aiming an arrow/boomerang is great with a wiimote, and just about everything else that uses new controls is not so hot. The waggling to attack thing was ok, not great, I mean, it was essentially a binary system of "WAGGLING DETECTED - ATTACK NOWS" or not, indistinguishable from Press A to Attack in most respects. I'll give you that one because I don't feel very strongly about it.

As for the Zelda chuck, I would estimate that I shield bashed when I wanted to circle attack and vice versa over half of the time. Is that because I suck at using the controls? It might be. But it might also be that the chuck's ability to distinguish between a human arm performing a forward thrust and that selfsame arm shaking back and forth is limited.

The gimmick and utility argument? I think I agree with Mario Party and the like being exempt from consideration because, as Roscoe said, its "raison d'etre is gimmicky". But other offenders, the ones who give off the stink of developers being coerced at the last minute to think of a way to have motion sensitive controls? They can go to hell.

_J_ said...

I'm too pissed off at Kirby's Canvase Curse to allow games like that a free-ride on the gimick train. When the "game" is basically a technical demo with perty graphics and box art (See Wiiario Wiiare) it can go fuck itself.

Also, I just realized that a tactical RPG could come to the Wii. And i'm trying to figure out how that would translate. Shake the remote to roll initiative.

Wait. Why didn't they use THAT in Mario Party? Instead of just lifting the remote to punch a floating block why not let the player shake the remote to shake a bucket containing dice?

Anyway. Tactical RPG on the Wii. Shake the remote to roll initiative. Use the wiimote to select squares on the screen for moving units. And then to fight bosses at the end of each stage you have to actually drop the remote!

Roscoe said...

man.. Jay, you're letting your frustration at thematic mechanics conflate with the issue. In Wario Ware? The drop the remote makes a kind of sense. It's an isolated complaint that is adressed by the game utilizing it.

as for Adam's issues with the Zelda remote.. yeah.. okay.. tying the more technical manuvers to combined motion/presses needed work. The backslice is nigh impossible to execute regularly. Akin to Hammer Ons and Pull Offs in GH-Classic.

But I call shenannigans on the remote as a binary. Twitching strikes, twitching while holding A strikes over head, twitching while Z targeting thrusts, and these become mildly different manuvers when you're in the air.

I'm not saying that the remote controls are godly and precise... I am saying that they produce a far superior game to the Cube and Wavebird play, with virtually every control you need for action on one hand, and movement/aiming in the other. Further, it is equally playable as full on Wii-tard mode and lazy couch gamer mode, with no loss of enthusiasm, experience, or enjoyment.

MA17 said...

If you want to double hate a game like the Wii's Wario Ware because it is a gimmick built upon a gimmick, then I guess I can't blame you.

I really wish the Wiimote had a light sensor, partly because then they could make a Wii version of Boktai, but mostly so that we could make a game where you win by shoving the Wiimote all the way up your ass.

But since it would be us making it, there'd be an option to play with "conventional controls", which would let you just Press A instead of forcing a long hunk of plastic into your rectum. And you know what? There would still be people insistent upon how much better the game is if you bury the Wii's bone in your backyard.

_J_ said...

Adam speaks for me on this subject from now on.

He articulated it beautifully.

Roscoe said...

probably. I'm just fairly convinced that Jay's got the wrong of it with Zelda.

I'm not convinced he's wrong.. just that his examples are poigniantly ill chosen.

I mean, rhetorically, at least choose a game that DOESN'T have a perfect control-comparison handy. Or Metal Slug.. which HAD perfectly suited controls.. and got a thousand BAD wiimotion controls for the Wii collection. Not just one suite of them.. MYRIADS.

I'm certain when Brawl comes out I'll dabble with the wiimote options.. but unless they're great on toast with jam, I'll likely be Wave'n it.

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