Friday, July 18, 2008

Batman is Silly; Dark Knight is Pretentious

Batman & Robin is on TNT...

I think this approach to Batman works better than the Batman Begins / Dark Knight approach...if only because Batman & Robin acknowledges how absurd the idea is...whereas Batman Begins tries to make it...realistic.

That's the problem I had with Batman Begin. It was so fucking silly and pretentious and inharmonious with itself due to that attempted realism. In Batman Begins they're trying to realistically portray some incredibly rich guy dressing like a bat who snoops around late at night fighting crime. They’re providing depth, backstory, motive and an appeal to realism.

But it can't be made realistic. It's not realistic. It's fundamentally absurd.

Gritty semi-realistic Batman works as a comic, as a cartoon. It works in forms of media which fundamentally suspend realism and create a new world in which the story can be told. I can understand cartoon Bruce Wayne prowling the streets of cartoon Gotham. That makes sense; that’s coherent. But if you have a real person, an actual human being, put on the batman costume, with the little ears and cape? That is silly. That is absurd. Trying to make that not silly…trying to make that realistic…is where it all falls apart.

George Clooney as Batman makes sense. Adam West as Batman makes sense. That casting, that approach to the series, acknowledges how silly the concept fundamentally is when made real, when portrayed by human beings, and finds a harmony with that silliness by embracing it.

But Christian Bale moodily brooding over his destiny, his lost parents, his grasping at an idealized form of justice all while dressing up as a widdle bat? That is fundamentally not harmonious, not realistic. It is inconsistent with itself.

I’ll watch Dark Knight and enjoy Heath Ledger as The Joker. But throughout the movie I’ll continually ask myself, “Why the FUCK is he dressed like a clown?” In the same way that when Christian Bale puts on his widdle bat ears I’ll continually ask, “Why the hell doesn’t he just shut up, make a large donation to the Gotham police department, and fuck Maggie Gyllenhaal?!”

Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, attempt to make realistic something which is fundamentally absurd. If they were just superhero movies? If they embraced the Superman, Fantastic Four, X-Men approach and abandoned realism to compliment the fundamentally unrealistic components of the stories? Then they would be awesome. But as it stands they are simply frustrating, inharmonious, silly, and pretentious.

136 comments:

Roscoe said...

Adam, Kyle? Release the hounds.

Roscoe said...

Assertion 1 to be dismantled) Film is not a medium for which realism may be suspended.

Stems from opening to paragraph 3 - It (gritty semi-realistic Batman) works in a forms of media which fundamentally supsend realism and create a new world in which the story can be told.

Blown to splinters by - Star Wars. Science Fiction in General. Conan the Barbarian and Conan the Destoryer. LotR. Superman 1. Iron Man. Tenacious D and the Pick of Destiny.

Honestly.. and I go back to this whenever Clooney comes up. Clooney's directorial vision of Batman? Works. THERE is your serious Batman film. Your issue is not with the man in the suit, it's the with plot of the story. A noir styled story, an actual Batman as detective movie would work.

Your issue isn't that Batman is silly, it's that tropes of Batman need to be given context. Whether that context is the world's surreal and go with it, because there comes Ra's Al Ghul in his flying Death Zepplin or if it's Gotham is a schizophrenic, deeply disturbed place and a batsuited lunatic is the only thing that speaks to these people...

Either of these can fit. It's the issue of the plot and the story to make that work, though. Not the character, the character interacts within that world. He doesn't define it, it defines him, in other words.

kylebrown said...

How exactly did Superman, FF, and X-men abandon the realism approach. I really must know. Is it because they have powers beyond mortal men, where as Batman does not? Is it because you prefer they stick to the source material for the first 3 that you approve, but for Batman sticking to the source material makes it bad?

One thing I will say, I had no freaking clue how popular this movie was going to be with the masses. I went to the midnight showing last night as I do every week. My theatre filled 6 full theatres for this film at the midnight showing. Really defeats the purpose of my going to midnight showings to shy away from the crowds.

_J_ said...

"How exactly did Superman, FF, and X-men abandon the realism approach"

They aren't real people. Superman is an alien. FF and X-Men are "real people" who gain super powers. When they gain those super powers the plot ceases to be realistic and enters the realm of fantasy. So I can believe a super scientist who becomes stretchy or a guy with metal fused to his skeleton because the entire reality of the film compliments that portrayal of "reality".

In a similar way the George Clooney batman was believeable. He's fighting over-the-top villians with over-the-top personalities who embrace over-the-top methods to wreck their havoc. So if a guy dressed in a freezy ice suit is shooting an ice beam at a city? It makes sense for a guy dressed as a bat to combat him. Adam West? He makes sense as Batman. The goofy "guy in bat costume" running around punching villians in a manner which results in a BIFF! BAM or KAPLOW! is coherent with itself.

Batman Begins and Dark Knight are not coherent. They're grasping at realism and believeability. They're trying to make Bruce Wayne a sympathetic, realistic character.

And then he puts on a widdle bat suit and punches people.

"Film is not a medium for which realism may be suspended."

That's not what I said. I said:

"Gritty semi-realistic Batman works as a comic, as a cartoon. It works in forms of media which fundamentally suspend realism and create a new world in which the story can be told."

In a cartoon or comic reality can be re-defined to compliment that gritty semi-realism portrayal of batman.

Work thing...

Roscoe said...

Well.. here's the problem, Kyle.. There's too much source material to stick to.

Adam West's Batman is source material. So is Schumacher's. So is Detective no. 27, where in Batman shows up at first, carrying a gun, the kinda guy who will drop scrubby criminals into acid.

So's Englehart's Dark Detective, and Frank Miller's current All Star Batman who's a raging Sin-City Douchebag.

So which source material do you run with? What happens when elements you cull from those sources conflict? That's really what Jay'd be getting at here, the movie.. which he has? hasn't seen?

Either way, the movie's inability to answer or address the questions he has at the end.

I'm in total agreement that his assertion at the beginning is BS.

But his greater issue, Why doesn't Bruce Wayne do this, that, and the other sensible thing instead of what he does?

That's what needs to be adressed, and that's the role of the film. It's the role of the character, in canon, but the film either needs to express that, or at least allude to it, and expect it's audience to have prior understanding of it.

_J_ said...

"Film is not a medium for which realism may be suspended."

Work thing fixed.

I did not say that film cannot suspend realism.

Sin City worked because the story, plot, characters, style, and everything fit together. The entire experience is harmonious.

Batman Begins and Dark Knight, from the 20 minutes of Dark Knight that I've seen, fail to do that. They fail at redefining reality to a degree that sufficiently explains why Commissioner Gordon does not fall on his ass laughing at the asshole in the bat costume. They operate within an inharmonious stylistic schism in which Comissioner Gordon is a real person...who talks to a guy dressed as a bat. In which a billionaire takes it upon himself to fight crime dressed as a bat. In which a guy with a hard-on for justice is a straight-laced, polished DA until half his face is burned off and then he goes "omg whatever".

Some characters in the movies make sense, fit with the overall structure of the plot and portrayal of the world. But then other characters fundamentally challenge that world. And it's not the sort of thing which occurs in X-Men in which you have pro-mutant and anti-mutant sides to a mutal conflict. It's a fundamental disharmony and confusion with what the films attempt to be.

You can't have an asshole put on a bat costume and not be laughed at for being ridiculous. You can't show Bruce Wayne with his shirt off, battered and bruised from his conflicts, and then allow him to romp about flying from building to building like nothing happened. You can't put a male human being next to Kate Holmes and have him decide to go fight crime dressed as a bat rather than fuck Katie Holmes.

_J_ said...

Guy in the office reviews Dark Knight:

"Guess that guy who killed himself did a good job."

SIGH

Roscoe said...

You want to catch it on matinee this weekend?

if that might avoid people?

_J_ said...

I do want to watch a matinee.

I'm thinking either Saturday at a 1ish or sunday. Saturday raid starts at 6:45 so the matinee would have to start very close to 3 at the latest.

Roscoe said...

Hmn. I'll look into it tonight.

You have plans tongiht? Raid/Run of some kind?

Roscoe said...

odd. I was given an error for "conflicting edits".. and .. coming back.. have a double post.

_J_ said...

Tonight is ZA.

"One thing I will say, I had no freaking clue how popular this movie was going to be with the masses."

Really? The movie has been hyped to hell in reviews. Plus, Heath Ledger Died and the only other movie of note coming out this week is Mama Mia.

Plus it's fucking BATMAN.

kylebrown said...

I don't pay attention to reviews. Brandon Lee died during the filming of the Crow, it probably didn't make as much in it's entire theatre run as Batman will make this weekend alone. As I mentioned, I go the midnight showing every week, and even blockbusters such as hancock, hellboy 2, and get smart couldn't even fill half a theatre. Batman packed at least 6 theatres, they may have opened a 7th late, i don't it was a chaotic.

kylebrown said...

I'm fairly certain batman will beat out Phantom Menace and all of the Harry Potter movies for biggest midnight showing crowd. I was caught off guard.

_J_ said...

More people than Star Wars and Harry Potter?

Maybe Indy just has a very dense collection of Batman fans.

kylebrown said...

The problem when you address the "sensible thing to do" is that you are assuming mental stability on the part of Bruce Wayne. A man who watched his parents gunned down in the street as a child. Batman doesn't fight crime purely to make Gotham safer, he also fights crime out of pleasure.

_J_ said...

"Batman doesn't fight crime purely to make Gotham safer, he also fights crime out of pleasure."

Then why is Christian Bale all grumpy and moody and "maybe Harvey Dent will replace me so I can fuck Katie/Maggie"?

He's such a whiny little bitch. And then he starts asking Michael Caine what he's supposed to do. Yes, ask your damned butler?!

The whole thing is so damned scattershot. He gets the crap beat out of him by dogs and thugs only to then jump off of buildings, crash through windows, and suffer no damage. He's this gruff, bad-assed stalker of the night who whines to his butler. He forces himself to do these things, then wants to quit, then hopes that Harvey will replace him, then wants Maggie to wait for him after he told Katie he had to be Batman.

Gah!

_J_ said...

"assuming mental stability on the part of Bruce Wayne"

I don't think it's an appeal to mental stability. I think it's more of an observation that there is a fundamental problem with portraying Batman in this way. He's not indecisive. He's not unbalanced. He's two or three different characters.

He wants to fight crime / He wants to stop.

He takes damage / He is invulnerable.

He is an assertive badass / He whines to his butler

That's not a deep, complex exploration of the duality of man. That's a writer who can't make a fucking decision.

Roscoe said...

I'm unclear. Have you seen the film, Jay?

_J_ said...

I have seen Batman Begins. I have seen about 20 minutes of Dark Knight.

And, of course, I've read spoilers.

Roscoe said...

Haven't we proven rather conclusively that reading spoilers != understanding the story?

_J_ said...

"Haven't we proven rather conclusively that reading spoilers != understanding the story?"

Nope.

Roscoe said...

If I maybe permitted to make the hurtful and totally cold jab, it's akin to your knowledge of women.

You know all the details, but for the life of you, you can't understand them correctly.

Seriously, though. Spoilers don't provide context, and you're talking about a medium that is entirely contextual. Film is nothing if not contextual.

_J_ said...

"You know all the details, but for the life of you, you can't understand them correctly."

Ow, my feelings!

"Spoilers don't provide context, and you're talking about a medium that is entirely contextual. Film is nothing if not contextual."

True, but the youtube videos of Christian Bale brooding on Youtube are ample context.

Roscoe said...

........... So.. Having a paragraph of the Euthyphro is enough context to claim I understand Socrates?

Roscoe said...

Just sayin'. You know. You wouldn't let me get away with that shit, so keep it honest, J-bomb.

kylebrown said...

"He wants to fight crime / He wants to stop."

It's called addiction. Many a person wants to stop gambling, eating, smoking, drinking. It just isn't that easy. Adrenaline junkies are no different.

"He takes damage / He is invulnerable."

He wears armor. I don't remember any scenes of Bruce showing grievous wounds no one could overcome in the first film, but I may be wrong. In this film he endures but bruises and lacerations. Hardly the type of injury that would sideline a superhero with armor.

"He is an assertive badass / He whines to his butler"

Alfred is his confidant. The only person who truly knows Bruce. Having someone to talk to and utilizing that opportunity hardly makes him less of a bad ass. It is no different than a mob boss seeing a shrink.

_J_ said...

Unfortunate looking girl excited about Dark Knight, inevitable nasal surgery

Roscoe said...

io9 has a point/counterpoint series of two long reviews.

and.. Newlitz seems to be a decent writer, Graeme knows his stuff comics wise and critic wise..


haven't read either.. but...

Anonymous said...

Fiction stretches reality. That's a good part of why people go to the movies. To suspend reality and vicariously live for a few hours as the protaganist. Stretch reality too far and what you're watching becomes pretentious and silly. That's what happens in the Dark Knight. The Joker does anything he wants for 2 1/2 hours. Employs a gang of criminals, kills them all, and absconds in a school bus by driving out of a bank and into the middle of a long line of moving school buses. No problem. Delivers himself up in a body bag to a gang boss who put out a contract on him. Right, nobody saw that one coming. Hides a bomb in a henchman's belly and the cops don't put him through a metal detector before they lock him up. Surrrrrrre. Plants tons of bombs in a hospital and disguises himself as a nurse. Easy as pie.
Stretch reality too far and it breaks and you wind up shaking your head and wondering how the critics managed to sucker you into the movies again.

Andrew said...

*thwack!* arbitrary line,*thwack!* arbitrary line,*thwack!* arbitrary line,*thwack!* arbitrary line!

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