Thursday, July 17, 2008

Pope Benny: War Makes for Strange Bedfellows, J

Raztinger takes on Moral Relativism

Sources say J conflicted, torn between hating Relativists and Pope Palpatine.

News at 11? Unlikely.


Roscoe said...

The De La Salle Brothers?

They know how to promote a monestary.

Or maybe they're just fans of Hendrick's Gin?

_J_ said...

“Relativism, by indiscriminately giving value to practically everything, has made ‘experience’ all-important,” he said. “Yet experiences, detached from any consideration of what is good or true, can lead not to genuine freedom but to moral or intellectual confusion, to a lowering of standards, to a loss of self-respect.”

The fuck?

_J_ said...

Ok, first of all? Relativism is not "indiscriminately giving value to practically everything".

1) Yes, it is "indiscriminate". But it's not "indiscriminate" in the "haphazard; thoughtless" sense. It is "indiscriminate" in the "lacking in judgment, selectivity" sense, which is a GOOD THING!

2) Relativism does not "give value".

3) "practically everything"? Why the hell is "practically" there? Relativism does not affect "practically" everything; relativism affects "everything"!

And that's not to say that relativism is awesome. But if we're going to critique it and find fault with it? We need to assess its actual qualities instead of just saying stupid shit.

_J_ said...

“Yet experiences, detached from any consideration of what is good or true...”

That is some amazing phrasing right there. That "what is good or true" structure? That's Absolutism.

The structure and phrasing of what he said indicates that his argument is not "here are the flaws with relativism" but rather "relativism is flawed because it is not absolutism". Which is one of the most jackhole stupid arguments one can make against relativism.

Assess the faults of the thing itself; assess a thing's characteristics. Don't say that grape tastes bad because it doesn't taste like cherry. Assess grape!

Roscoe said...

I is spacy, as I bobbled and lost my damn pill this morning...

but I thought you might like this one.. heh.

will be back to read and marvel at the outrage soon.

_J_ said...

"lost my damn pill this morning"

Are Pills like mana, and one appears every morning like dew on the newly awakened grass?

Because I was under the impression, and correct me if I'm wrong, that pills come in bottles containing many pills. So if one, say, drops a pill they can wrench from the bottle a new pill, a better pill, a replacement pill.

Roscoe said...

I was in the office when I lost it. so..kinda, yeah, unreplacable.

_J_ said...

That'll do it.

_J_ said...

"can lead not to genuine freedom but to moral or intellectual confusion, to a lowering of standards, to a loss of self-respect."

1) "Genuine freedom" is another absolutist claim.

2) "moral or intellectual confusion" is interesting. Because that sort of criticism, played out? Can be an apt, harmful criticism of relativism. Part of the problem with relativism is not a confusion, but rather an inability to utilize an absolute. Nothing can be done or said without absolutes. It's odd that he got this close to a genuine criticism of relativism and then fucked it up.

3) "a lowering of standards". Fuck you.

4) "to a loss of self-respect"
That's pretty damn awesome if he's saying what I think he's saying. If "Self-respect" is a roundabout way of saying "self-worth" then, yes, relativism can manifest that. But I don't know if he's using "self-respect" in that way, as invoking self-value, or if he's talking about something else and placing the focus on "respect" rather than "self".

_J_ said...

I agree with the "“insatiable consumption" criticism, though.

Though, it's Ironic to hear the pope talking about "consumption" given Catholicisms prediliction for consuming the shit out of natural resources to make their god houses.